For that matter, I hope you’re pretending to see the Revolution as a war between the Americans and the British. When you do that, you imply that loyalists were not Americans. Many, many, many Americans opposed the Patriots. It’s much more accurate to describe the Revolution as a civil war. Don’t let nationalism cloud your analysis.

While it is true that many of the “forefathers” were wealthy landowners, the fact is that they placed their wealth, their fortunes and their very lives on the line for an ideal with scant chance of success. They followed French and English philosophical ideals — indeed, they were ideals — far from supportive of concentrations of power and authority. By the end of the revolutionary war, Washington was sufficiently popular to assume extraordinary power and authority, and he refused. There are many other examples of idealistic intellectual interchange and struggle very much in contravention of concentration of power and authority of the few over the many.

It is true, slaves, Native Americans and even the unlanded population were left far outside the ideal, but the ideal so much fought over and fought for ultimately has been a foundation for their progress.

Matt (also a former Clevelander)

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/309550/the_fourth_of_july_and_the_1812_overture.html?cat=37

Best research reveals that the \1812 Overture\ became a staple of July 4th celebrations sometime after 1812.

While driving home after playing a \Salute to the U.S.A.\ concert at Blossom Music Center (outside of Cleveland, Ohio) I listened to the discusson about the playing of the 1812 Overture, and had to comment.
Loras Schissel, our conductor and commentator for the evening told the audience that Arthur Fiedler brought the playing of that piece into popularity after programing it for the Boston Pops July 4th celebration in 1976. The piece lends itself well to cannon fire, with an appropriate segue into the post concert fireworks display.
Happy 4th all!

However, you missed the point entirely of the pastor who called in saying his parishioners want to incorporate the Fourth into worship services, and that he is uncomfortable about that.

You guys didn’t seem to understand the issue. Christianity is not about the United States of America. We Christians are to follow Christ, not the nation-state. Along with Jews and Muslims, we are to have no gods but God. Corrupting our faith to the service of nationalism is idolatry, even heresy. Early Christians understood this when they refused to worship the Emperor.

“Patriotism” has become for many Americans a civil religion, one that American Christians often conflate with their Christianity. We need to sort this out; the separation of Church and State is necessary to protects each from the corrupting influence of the other.