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	<title>Comments on: Naughty &amp; Nice: A History of The Holiday Season</title>
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	<description>VFH Radio at the Virginia Foundation for the Humanities</description>
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		<title>By: Teaching Faith-Based Holidays in December &#124; MiddleWeb</title>
		<link>http://backstoryradio.org/happy-holidays-a-history-of-the-season/comment-page-1/#comment-76427</link>
		<dc:creator>Teaching Faith-Based Holidays in December &#124; MiddleWeb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2012 20:57:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.backstoryradio.org/?p=659#comment-76427</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Kwanzaa. Finally, &#8220;Naughty &amp; Nice: A History of The Holiday Season,&#8221; at the site Back Story with the American History Guys, focuses on several sides of the political debate over Christmas and schools. Teachers may want to [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Kwanzaa. Finally, &#8220;Naughty &amp; Nice: A History of The Holiday Season,&#8221; at the site Back Story with the American History Guys, focuses on several sides of the political debate over Christmas and schools. Teachers may want to [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Food Safety News Naughty List 2010 - Food Safety News</title>
		<link>http://backstoryradio.org/happy-holidays-a-history-of-the-season/comment-page-1/#comment-24316</link>
		<dc:creator>Food Safety News Naughty List 2010 - Food Safety News</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2012 15:22:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.backstoryradio.org/?p=659#comment-24316</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] out more at&#160;Back Story with the American History Guys.&#160;&#160;Or, if you need to be put in the Christmas mood, see tomorrow&#8217;s Nice [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] out more at&nbsp;Back Story with the American History Guys.&nbsp;&nbsp;Or, if you need to be put in the Christmas mood, see tomorrow&#8217;s Nice [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: &#34;Naughty &#38; Nice&#34;: Show Highlights &#124; BackStory with the American History Guys</title>
		<link>http://backstoryradio.org/happy-holidays-a-history-of-the-season/comment-page-1/#comment-21034</link>
		<dc:creator>&#34;Naughty &#38; Nice&#34;: Show Highlights &#124; BackStory with the American History Guys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jul 2012 12:16:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.backstoryradio.org/?p=659#comment-21034</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] The following audio clips are excerpted from the BackStory episode &#8220;Naughty &amp; Nice: A History of the Holiday Season,&#8221; broadcast in December of 2009.  You can listen to the entire episode here. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The following audio clips are excerpted from the BackStory episode &#8220;Naughty &amp; Nice: A History of the Holiday Season,&#8221; broadcast in December of 2009.  You can listen to the entire episode here. [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Tadd</title>
		<link>http://backstoryradio.org/happy-holidays-a-history-of-the-season/comment-page-1/#comment-18042</link>
		<dc:creator>Tadd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2011 00:39:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.backstoryradio.org/?p=659#comment-18042</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just recently discovered your podcast, and I&#039;m busy catching up.  I listened to this Christmas episode today, and descriptions of early nineteenth century celebrations sparked some memories and answered some long-running questions.  In the 1970&#039;s in Nashville, Tennessee, we had a family tradition of caroling on Christmas eve to raise money for a local charity.  I was often confused by some of the lyrics from older carols, for instance from &quot;We Wish You a Merry Christmas&quot; . . .

We wish you a merry Christmas, etc. etc., and a Happy New Year.
(and then the less often sung second and third stanzas)
We want some figgy pudding, etc. etc., and a cup of good cheer.
We won&#039;t go until we get some, etc. etc., so bring it out here.

. . . but in the context of temporary inversion of the social order, the calling out for food and drink makes perfect sense.  Then, the one that always baffled me, from &quot;Here We Come A-Wassailing&quot; . . .

We are not daily beggars who go from door to door, 
But we are neighbor&#039;s children, whom you have seen before.

. . . must date from the period of the holiday&#039;s early &quot;domestication&quot;, as it reflects the softening of the social inversion into a plaything for the young.  Not that it has been keeping me up at night all these years, but thanks for the clarification.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just recently discovered your podcast, and I&#8217;m busy catching up.  I listened to this Christmas episode today, and descriptions of early nineteenth century celebrations sparked some memories and answered some long-running questions.  In the 1970&#8242;s in Nashville, Tennessee, we had a family tradition of caroling on Christmas eve to raise money for a local charity.  I was often confused by some of the lyrics from older carols, for instance from &#8220;We Wish You a Merry Christmas&#8221; . . .</p>
<p>We wish you a merry Christmas, etc. etc., and a Happy New Year.<br />
(and then the less often sung second and third stanzas)<br />
We want some figgy pudding, etc. etc., and a cup of good cheer.<br />
We won&#8217;t go until we get some, etc. etc., so bring it out here.</p>
<p>. . . but in the context of temporary inversion of the social order, the calling out for food and drink makes perfect sense.  Then, the one that always baffled me, from &#8220;Here We Come A-Wassailing&#8221; . . .</p>
<p>We are not daily beggars who go from door to door,<br />
But we are neighbor&#8217;s children, whom you have seen before.</p>
<p>. . . must date from the period of the holiday&#8217;s early &#8220;domestication&#8221;, as it reflects the softening of the social inversion into a plaything for the young.  Not that it has been keeping me up at night all these years, but thanks for the clarification.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Santa &#171; molike</title>
		<link>http://backstoryradio.org/happy-holidays-a-history-of-the-season/comment-page-1/#comment-10806</link>
		<dc:creator>Santa &#171; molike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Dec 2010 20:10:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.backstoryradio.org/?p=659#comment-10806</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Naughty &amp; Nice: A History of The Holiday Season [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Naughty &amp; Nice: A History of The Holiday Season [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Annette</title>
		<link>http://backstoryradio.org/happy-holidays-a-history-of-the-season/comment-page-1/#comment-10745</link>
		<dc:creator>Annette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Dec 2010 15:32:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.backstoryradio.org/?p=659#comment-10745</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As a non-Christian adult, we (my husband and I) participate in the Christmas holiday as we do other secular holidays. As a person who was raised a Christian, memories of Christmas in the late 50&#039;s and early 60&#039;s were more about families and gathering together to celebrate the season of Peace and Good Will than it was about the birth of Christ as Easter was our holiest of days.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a non-Christian adult, we (my husband and I) participate in the Christmas holiday as we do other secular holidays. As a person who was raised a Christian, memories of Christmas in the late 50&#8242;s and early 60&#8242;s were more about families and gathering together to celebrate the season of Peace and Good Will than it was about the birth of Christ as Easter was our holiest of days.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Naughty &#38; Nice: Online Resources &#124; BackStory With The American History Guys</title>
		<link>http://backstoryradio.org/happy-holidays-a-history-of-the-season/comment-page-1/#comment-9869</link>
		<dc:creator>Naughty &#38; Nice: Online Resources &#124; BackStory With The American History Guys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Dec 2010 18:53:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.backstoryradio.org/?p=659#comment-9869</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] The following links and documents relate to the BackStory episode, &#8220;Naughty &amp; Nice: The History of the Holiday Season.&#8220; [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The following links and documents relate to the BackStory episode, &#8220;Naughty &amp; Nice: The History of the Holiday Season.&#8220; [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://backstoryradio.org/happy-holidays-a-history-of-the-season/comment-page-1/#comment-8233</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Aug 2010 14:22:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.backstoryradio.org/?p=659#comment-8233</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A caller asked why Easter, a more important Christian holiday, has not developed to the same commercial level as Christmas.  Your answers were insightful; however, another possible answer is suggested by the comments early in the broadcast regarding the winter solstice.  At that time the men in an agrarian society had little work to do.  Likewise, aaproaching the spring equinox the men would have had little time for frivolity.  Thanks for your interesting program.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A caller asked why Easter, a more important Christian holiday, has not developed to the same commercial level as Christmas.  Your answers were insightful; however, another possible answer is suggested by the comments early in the broadcast regarding the winter solstice.  At that time the men in an agrarian society had little work to do.  Likewise, aaproaching the spring equinox the men would have had little time for frivolity.  Thanks for your interesting program.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Tony (BackStory Producer)</title>
		<link>http://backstoryradio.org/happy-holidays-a-history-of-the-season/comment-page-1/#comment-482</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony (BackStory Producer)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jan 2010 21:19:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.backstoryradio.org/?p=659#comment-482</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[quote comment=&quot;6316&quot;]I am enjoying listening to this podcast, which I happily found because iTunes twittered about it today.  However, I was a little disappointed on a history podcast to hear the theory that the 4th century church chose Dec 25 to compete with previously existing observations advanced as if it were proven fact...[/quote]

Thanks, Beth. I put your challenge to our interviewee, Stephen Nissenbaum, and here&#039;s what he had to say:

&quot;I appreciate Beth’s comment about the reason why Christmas was placed on Dec. 25 by the fourth century Church. The article to which she links represents an effort to challenge the claim that the Church selected the Dec. 25 date in order to appropriate the Roman Saturnalia—in effect, to insulate Christmas from the possibility of pagan origins and to reclaim it for Christianity. This article points out that Dec. 25 happens to arrive exactly nine months after March 25, the approximate date of Jesus’ crucifixion. From that point, the article argues that certain early Christian theologians believed that Jesus was also conceived on that same date (March 25), so that his nativity would indeed have occurred on Dec. 25.

It’s an interesting idea—and one that is necessarily just as speculative as the Saturnalia theory. To the best of my knowledge, there is simply no direct evidence about the motives of the Church for placing Christmas on Dec. 25. Personally, I am not persuaded by the article Beth offers us. But in any case, I’ve always been inclined to think that there’s another reason altogether for the late fourth century decision to place Christmas in late December, and it is the reason I gave in my BackStory interview. Let me quote my words from that interview: &#039;Christmas took place during a season when there was, at least for males in an agricultural society, not a lot of work to be done. It was also a season when there was plenty of fresh food and fresh alcoholic drink. So it’s a season of excess, of letting go.&#039; To be sure, that doesn’t offer anything resembling a religious reason for the decision to place the nativity on Dec. 25; but at least it disentangles Christmas somewhat from the “charge” that it originated in pagan rituals.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
I am enjoying listening to this podcast, which I happily found because iTunes twittered about it today.  However, I was a little disappointed on a history podcast to hear the theory that the 4th century church chose Dec 25 to compete with previously existing observations advanced as if it were proven fact&#8230;</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Thanks, Beth. I put your challenge to our interviewee, Stephen Nissenbaum, and here&#8217;s what he had to say:</p>
<p>&#8220;I appreciate Beth’s comment about the reason why Christmas was placed on Dec. 25 by the fourth century Church. The article to which she links represents an effort to challenge the claim that the Church selected the Dec. 25 date in order to appropriate the Roman Saturnalia—in effect, to insulate Christmas from the possibility of pagan origins and to reclaim it for Christianity. This article points out that Dec. 25 happens to arrive exactly nine months after March 25, the approximate date of Jesus’ crucifixion. From that point, the article argues that certain early Christian theologians believed that Jesus was also conceived on that same date (March 25), so that his nativity would indeed have occurred on Dec. 25.</p>
<p>It’s an interesting idea—and one that is necessarily just as speculative as the Saturnalia theory. To the best of my knowledge, there is simply no direct evidence about the motives of the Church for placing Christmas on Dec. 25. Personally, I am not persuaded by the article Beth offers us. But in any case, I’ve always been inclined to think that there’s another reason altogether for the late fourth century decision to place Christmas in late December, and it is the reason I gave in my BackStory interview. Let me quote my words from that interview: &#8216;Christmas took place during a season when there was, at least for males in an agricultural society, not a lot of work to be done. It was also a season when there was plenty of fresh food and fresh alcoholic drink. So it’s a season of excess, of letting go.&#8217; To be sure, that doesn’t offer anything resembling a religious reason for the decision to place the nativity on Dec. 25; but at least it disentangles Christmas somewhat from the “charge” that it originated in pagan rituals.&#8221;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Beth</title>
		<link>http://backstoryradio.org/happy-holidays-a-history-of-the-season/comment-page-1/#comment-454</link>
		<dc:creator>Beth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Dec 2009 00:25:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.backstoryradio.org/?p=659#comment-454</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am enjoying listening to this podcast, which I happily found because iTunes twittered about it today.  However, I was a little disappointed on a history podcast to hear the theory that the 4th century church chose Dec 25 to compete with previously existing observations advanced as if it were proven fact. I know that this idea is hugely popular with an historically untrained public, and it certainly makes a great, intuitively plausible, and colorful story.  However, there are serious problems with the actual evidence for it, and it has been viewed with skepticism in the academy for a few decades now.  There is much better historical evidence for a far less novelistic theory, which maintains that this date and the other contemporaneous &quot;Eastern&quot; date for Christmas in the East (Jan 6)  were both arrived at purely by computation.  A recent treatment of this theory that&#039;s readable by non-specialists can be found at
http://www.bib-arch.org/e-features/christmas.asp]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am enjoying listening to this podcast, which I happily found because iTunes twittered about it today.  However, I was a little disappointed on a history podcast to hear the theory that the 4th century church chose Dec 25 to compete with previously existing observations advanced as if it were proven fact. I know that this idea is hugely popular with an historically untrained public, and it certainly makes a great, intuitively plausible, and colorful story.  However, there are serious problems with the actual evidence for it, and it has been viewed with skepticism in the academy for a few decades now.  There is much better historical evidence for a far less novelistic theory, which maintains that this date and the other contemporaneous &#8220;Eastern&#8221; date for Christmas in the East (Jan 6)  were both arrived at purely by computation.  A recent treatment of this theory that&#8217;s readable by non-specialists can be found at<br />
<a href="http://www.bib-arch.org/e-features/christmas.asp" rel="nofollow">http://www.bib-arch.org/e-features/christmas.asp</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Naughty or Nice? &#124; mauivents.com</title>
		<link>http://backstoryradio.org/happy-holidays-a-history-of-the-season/comment-page-1/#comment-453</link>
		<dc:creator>Naughty or Nice? &#124; mauivents.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 10:09:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.backstoryradio.org/?p=659#comment-453</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] &#8220;Christmas may be the big kahuna of American holy days, but it wasn’t always so. It used to be a time of drunken rowdiness, when the poor would demand food and money from the rich&#8230; Has Christmas grown more or less religious?&#8221; Hear or read it all from Back Story with the American History Guys&#8217; segment &#8220;Naughty &amp; Nice: A History of The... [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8220;Christmas may be the big kahuna of American holy days, but it wasn’t always so. It used to be a time of drunken rowdiness, when the poor would demand food and money from the rich&#8230; Has Christmas grown more or less religious?&#8221; Hear or read it all from Back Story with the American History Guys&#8217; segment &#8220;Naughty &amp; Nice: A History of The&#8230; [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Advent Reflection Video &#171; HarvestBoston</title>
		<link>http://backstoryradio.org/happy-holidays-a-history-of-the-season/comment-page-1/#comment-452</link>
		<dc:creator>Advent Reflection Video &#171; HarvestBoston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 18:42:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.backstoryradio.org/?p=659#comment-452</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] to add this: I&#8217;d be remiss if I didn&#8217;t share this podcast that I&#8217;m about 3/4 of the way through on the history of Christmas in America.  It debunks [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to add this: I&#8217;d be remiss if I didn&#8217;t share this podcast that I&#8217;m about 3/4 of the way through on the history of Christmas in America.  It debunks [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Robert Barr</title>
		<link>http://backstoryradio.org/happy-holidays-a-history-of-the-season/comment-page-1/#comment-450</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Barr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 19:22:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.backstoryradio.org/?p=659#comment-450</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is revealing that the author from the post promoting Aish calls modern scholarship “a secularist view.”  The author uses the term as a pejorative and suggests that a historically accurate approach to understanding the evolution of Judaism is a “disservice.”  I would suggest that the true disservice is when folks, in an attempt to maintain their religious perspective, deny the evidence and ignore history.  If someone wishes to maintain their Orthodox perspective, that is their prerogative, but they should not suggest that theirs is the authentic approach to Judaism.

Robert B. Barr, Rabbi
Congregation Beth Adam]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is revealing that the author from the post promoting Aish calls modern scholarship “a secularist view.”  The author uses the term as a pejorative and suggests that a historically accurate approach to understanding the evolution of Judaism is a “disservice.”  I would suggest that the true disservice is when folks, in an attempt to maintain their religious perspective, deny the evidence and ignore history.  If someone wishes to maintain their Orthodox perspective, that is their prerogative, but they should not suggest that theirs is the authentic approach to Judaism.</p>
<p>Robert B. Barr, Rabbi<br />
Congregation Beth Adam</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://backstoryradio.org/happy-holidays-a-history-of-the-season/comment-page-1/#comment-451</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 18:03:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.backstoryradio.org/?p=659#comment-451</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Your take on Chanukah, looking at it from a secularist view, did a disservice. In most of your &#039;casts you seem to look at the other side. In this case you did yourself a disservice.

In reality, Chanukah is tied as one of the _least_ important holidays in the Orthodox Jewish calendar. It is _*not*_ the Jewish x-mas. It is not based on a lie, as the rabbi you spoke to feels.

For more, better, and clear information from the Orthodox view you can look at http://www.aish.com/h/c/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your take on Chanukah, looking at it from a secularist view, did a disservice. In most of your &#8216;casts you seem to look at the other side. In this case you did yourself a disservice.</p>
<p>In reality, Chanukah is tied as one of the _least_ important holidays in the Orthodox Jewish calendar. It is _*not*_ the Jewish x-mas. It is not based on a lie, as the rabbi you spoke to feels.</p>
<p>For more, better, and clear information from the Orthodox view you can look at <a href="http://www.aish.com/h/c/" rel="nofollow">http://www.aish.com/h/c/</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Tony (BackStory Producer)</title>
		<link>http://backstoryradio.org/happy-holidays-a-history-of-the-season/comment-page-1/#comment-449</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony (BackStory Producer)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 18:13:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.backstoryradio.org/?p=659#comment-449</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[quote comment=&quot;5671&quot;]...If Bradford&#039;s text later became a source of holiday tradition for later Americans -- and note that his famous description of the first &quot;thanksgiving&quot; comes two chapters later (1623), it is very interesting to see an early American Christmas at such odds with our &quot;most wonderful time of the year&quot; formulation of the holiday.  What gives?  Didn&#039;t Andy Williams read his William Bradford?[/quote]

David -

Your question is a perfect set-up to an interview we&#039;re recording today with Stephen Nissenbaum, author of a fascinating cultural history from a few years back called &quot;The Battle for Christmas.&quot; Short answer is that the Puritan impulse to ban X-Mas was no match for the consumer revolution, which reached its fevered pitch in the early 19th century and gave birth to Santa. For the longer answer, tune into our show, when it&#039;s completed. Or just track down the book! It&#039;s a great read, highly recommended by all of us. Thanks for writing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
&#8230;If Bradford&#8217;s text later became a source of holiday tradition for later Americans &#8212; and note that his famous description of the first &#8220;thanksgiving&#8221; comes two chapters later (1623), it is very interesting to see an early American Christmas at such odds with our &#8220;most wonderful time of the year&#8221; formulation of the holiday.  What gives?  Didn&#8217;t Andy Williams read his William Bradford?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>David -</p>
<p>Your question is a perfect set-up to an interview we&#8217;re recording today with Stephen Nissenbaum, author of a fascinating cultural history from a few years back called &#8220;The Battle for Christmas.&#8221; Short answer is that the Puritan impulse to ban X-Mas was no match for the consumer revolution, which reached its fevered pitch in the early 19th century and gave birth to Santa. For the longer answer, tune into our show, when it&#8217;s completed. Or just track down the book! It&#8217;s a great read, highly recommended by all of us. Thanks for writing.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Keith Wildenberg</title>
		<link>http://backstoryradio.org/happy-holidays-a-history-of-the-season/comment-page-1/#comment-448</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Wildenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 09:19:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.backstoryradio.org/?p=659#comment-448</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Traditionally, the liturgical Twelve Days of Christmas run from the Nativity (25 December) to the Epiphany (6 January).  In the secular celebration, the Christmas season itself lasted well into January and February, when the festivities blended into the pre-Lent carnival.

Today, we have preserved the two months of partying, but it has shifted from the old mid-December through mid-February.  Now we see holiday displays going up already in September and October, office Christmas parties in November, and a constant drone of schloky music.  But the more distressing part is that the same displays come down and the music stops on 26 December, when the traditional celebration is only beginning.

When did this great time shift happen?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Traditionally, the liturgical Twelve Days of Christmas run from the Nativity (25 December) to the Epiphany (6 January).  In the secular celebration, the Christmas season itself lasted well into January and February, when the festivities blended into the pre-Lent carnival.</p>
<p>Today, we have preserved the two months of partying, but it has shifted from the old mid-December through mid-February.  Now we see holiday displays going up already in September and October, office Christmas parties in November, and a constant drone of schloky music.  But the more distressing part is that the same displays come down and the music stops on 26 December, when the traditional celebration is only beginning.</p>
<p>When did this great time shift happen?</p>
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		<title>By: David Keegan</title>
		<link>http://backstoryradio.org/happy-holidays-a-history-of-the-season/comment-page-1/#comment-447</link>
		<dc:creator>David Keegan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 14:47:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.backstoryradio.org/?p=659#comment-447</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[From &quot;Of Plymouth Plantation,&quot; Governor William Bradford&#039;s history of Plymouth, Massachusetts from 1620-1647.  Below is the last paragraph from the chapter for 1621:

&quot;And herewith I shall end this year.  Only I shall remember one passage more, rather of mirth than of weight.  On the day called Christmas Day, the Governor called them [ie, all able-bodied hands] out to work as was used.  But the most of this new company [that is, new arrivals to the colony who did not consider themselves Puritans] excused themselves and said it went against their consciences to work on that day.  So the Governor told them that if they made it matter of conscience, he would spare them till they were better informed; so he led away the rest and left them.  But when they came home at noon from their work, he found them in the street at play, openly; some pitching the bar, and some at stool-ball and other such like sports.  So he went to them and took away their implements and told them that was against his conscience, that they should play and other work.  If they made the keeping of it matter of devotion, let them keep their houses; but there should be no gaming or reveling in the streets.  Since which time nothing hath been attempted that way, at least openly.&quot;

In my edition of Bradford, this passage has a little annotation by the historian and editor S.E. Morison that &quot;Puritans objected to the celebration of Christmas as a pagan revelry.&quot;

If Bradford&#039;s text later became a source of holiday tradition for later Americans -- and note that his famous description of the first &quot;thanksgiving&quot; comes two chapters later (1623), it is very interesting to see an early American Christmas at such odds with our &quot;most wonderful time of the year&quot; formulation of the holiday.  What gives?  Didn&#039;t Andy Williams read his William Bradford?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From &#8220;Of Plymouth Plantation,&#8221; Governor William Bradford&#8217;s history of Plymouth, Massachusetts from 1620-1647.  Below is the last paragraph from the chapter for 1621:</p>
<p>&#8220;And herewith I shall end this year.  Only I shall remember one passage more, rather of mirth than of weight.  On the day called Christmas Day, the Governor called them [ie, all able-bodied hands] out to work as was used.  But the most of this new company [that is, new arrivals to the colony who did not consider themselves Puritans] excused themselves and said it went against their consciences to work on that day.  So the Governor told them that if they made it matter of conscience, he would spare them till they were better informed; so he led away the rest and left them.  But when they came home at noon from their work, he found them in the street at play, openly; some pitching the bar, and some at stool-ball and other such like sports.  So he went to them and took away their implements and told them that was against his conscience, that they should play and other work.  If they made the keeping of it matter of devotion, let them keep their houses; but there should be no gaming or reveling in the streets.  Since which time nothing hath been attempted that way, at least openly.&#8221;</p>
<p>In my edition of Bradford, this passage has a little annotation by the historian and editor S.E. Morison that &#8220;Puritans objected to the celebration of Christmas as a pagan revelry.&#8221;</p>
<p>If Bradford&#8217;s text later became a source of holiday tradition for later Americans &#8212; and note that his famous description of the first &#8220;thanksgiving&#8221; comes two chapters later (1623), it is very interesting to see an early American Christmas at such odds with our &#8220;most wonderful time of the year&#8221; formulation of the holiday.  What gives?  Didn&#8217;t Andy Williams read his William Bradford?</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://backstoryradio.org/happy-holidays-a-history-of-the-season/comment-page-1/#comment-446</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 11:28:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.backstoryradio.org/?p=659#comment-446</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I grew up in the 50s and 60s in a very conservative protestant community where the attempt was always made to emphsize the xtian mythology and associated religious beliefs at christmas time. At the same time, in the 50s and 60, secular society was fertilizing and growing the  materialistic, aquisitive spirit that was not lost on my age group.

As visions of sugar pumbs and bicycles and trainsets danced in our head, we woke up xmas morning to a stern prerequisite - oatmeal and interminable prayers and religious pronouncements came before any access to the xmas tree.

This had two effects - heightened, bursting anticipation of what lay under the tree, soon followed by disappointment with the discovery of very practicle new pairs of  socks and a set of pencils.

The family of one of my friends had what I think was the solution: they established a &quot;Special Day&quot; in the middle of July on which to exchange gifts. Xmas was reserved solely for its religious connotations.

Even today, I feel somewhat schizophrenic about xmas, usually preferring to skip it.  Is it a day in which the most relevant question is &quot;WHAT DID YOU GET?&quot;  Or, is it a day to revisit some of the wiser teachings of that fellow for whom the holiday is named?

I still cannot reconcile the two.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I grew up in the 50s and 60s in a very conservative protestant community where the attempt was always made to emphsize the xtian mythology and associated religious beliefs at christmas time. At the same time, in the 50s and 60, secular society was fertilizing and growing the  materialistic, aquisitive spirit that was not lost on my age group.</p>
<p>As visions of sugar pumbs and bicycles and trainsets danced in our head, we woke up xmas morning to a stern prerequisite &#8211; oatmeal and interminable prayers and religious pronouncements came before any access to the xmas tree.</p>
<p>This had two effects &#8211; heightened, bursting anticipation of what lay under the tree, soon followed by disappointment with the discovery of very practicle new pairs of  socks and a set of pencils.</p>
<p>The family of one of my friends had what I think was the solution: they established a &#8220;Special Day&#8221; in the middle of July on which to exchange gifts. Xmas was reserved solely for its religious connotations.</p>
<p>Even today, I feel somewhat schizophrenic about xmas, usually preferring to skip it.  Is it a day in which the most relevant question is &#8220;WHAT DID YOU GET?&#8221;  Or, is it a day to revisit some of the wiser teachings of that fellow for whom the holiday is named?</p>
<p>I still cannot reconcile the two.</p>
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		<title>By: Rhonda Newton</title>
		<link>http://backstoryradio.org/happy-holidays-a-history-of-the-season/comment-page-1/#comment-445</link>
		<dc:creator>Rhonda Newton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 03:12:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.backstoryradio.org/?p=659#comment-445</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have to wonder if my family&#039;s tradition of a low-key Christmas - focusing on church and family with gifts but not as the focus - goes back to our New England Puritan roots, leavened with some Quakers and Scots-Irish Presbyterians.

It feels like there are two Christmases in the United States now - the religious holiday and the secular holiday.  When did the secular gift-giving extravaganza evolve?  It is with the post-World War II rise in disposable incomes and baby boom?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to wonder if my family&#8217;s tradition of a low-key Christmas &#8211; focusing on church and family with gifts but not as the focus &#8211; goes back to our New England Puritan roots, leavened with some Quakers and Scots-Irish Presbyterians.</p>
<p>It feels like there are two Christmases in the United States now &#8211; the religious holiday and the secular holiday.  When did the secular gift-giving extravaganza evolve?  It is with the post-World War II rise in disposable incomes and baby boom?</p>
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		<title>By: Sheryl</title>
		<link>http://backstoryradio.org/happy-holidays-a-history-of-the-season/comment-page-1/#comment-444</link>
		<dc:creator>Sheryl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 16:29:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.backstoryradio.org/?p=659#comment-444</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I thought this archived Virginia Vignette might be useful for the show.


Who were Belsnicklelers and Shanghai-ers?

December, 2007 Topics: Religion

At least as early as the 1850s, many German residents of the Valley of Virginia celebrated the Christmas season with the unique custom of “belsnickeling.” The tradition’s origins are murky but the name comes from the Germans of the Palatinate region where Belznickel, or Saint Nicholas, brought small gifts for good children. In the Valley of Virginia, this evolved into bands of costumed adults wandering on foot or horseback from house to house during the day or night, making as much noise as humanly possible. Belsnickelers disguised themselves with improvised masks. The trick was for the residents to guess who was behind the costume. Customs varied from community to community, and the practice was not appreciated among the Brethren, the Mennonites, and others who did not observe Christmas for religious reasons. Sometimes the Belsnicklers unmasked after the guessing, sometimes they were served spirits or food. In some areas the practice was restricted to Christmas Eve; in others it went on for the twelve days of Christmas. Belsnickeling, and a similar custom called Shanghai-ing which was practiced in Scots-Irish communities south of Winchester, declined in the twentieth century and finally disappeared after World War II.

Excerpted from Four Centuries of Virginia Christmas, Mary Miley Theobald and Libbey Hodges Oliver, Dietz Press, Petersburg, VA, 2000 (http://www.dietzpress.com/)

Brought to you by Encyclopedia Virginia at the Virginia Foundation for the Humanities.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought this archived Virginia Vignette might be useful for the show.</p>
<p>Who were Belsnicklelers and Shanghai-ers?</p>
<p>December, 2007 Topics: Religion</p>
<p>At least as early as the 1850s, many German residents of the Valley of Virginia celebrated the Christmas season with the unique custom of “belsnickeling.” The tradition’s origins are murky but the name comes from the Germans of the Palatinate region where Belznickel, or Saint Nicholas, brought small gifts for good children. In the Valley of Virginia, this evolved into bands of costumed adults wandering on foot or horseback from house to house during the day or night, making as much noise as humanly possible. Belsnickelers disguised themselves with improvised masks. The trick was for the residents to guess who was behind the costume. Customs varied from community to community, and the practice was not appreciated among the Brethren, the Mennonites, and others who did not observe Christmas for religious reasons. Sometimes the Belsnicklers unmasked after the guessing, sometimes they were served spirits or food. In some areas the practice was restricted to Christmas Eve; in others it went on for the twelve days of Christmas. Belsnickeling, and a similar custom called Shanghai-ing which was practiced in Scots-Irish communities south of Winchester, declined in the twentieth century and finally disappeared after World War II.</p>
<p>Excerpted from Four Centuries of Virginia Christmas, Mary Miley Theobald and Libbey Hodges Oliver, Dietz Press, Petersburg, VA, 2000 (<a href="http://www.dietzpress.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.dietzpress.com/</a>)</p>
<p>Brought to you by Encyclopedia Virginia at the Virginia Foundation for the Humanities.</p>
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